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No es exactamente una recopilación de Polares (que parece que no encuentro), sino mas bien una selección de opiniones de propietarios de estos magníficos tres modelos
, que os pongo aquí por si a alguno le interesa..
Belliure Endurance 35 (Sacado de un post):
(Siscoflyer)
Yo no he ido nunca a 8 nudos con mi endurance 35, es verdad que no se mueve demasiado con poco aire ,sin pretender sentar cátedra, os transmito mis datos aproximados.
El mio es de configuración Ketch, llevo enrollador en la trinquea y la génova. Mayor y mesana tradicional, pero con patines en la mayor.
Por debajo de 5 nudos de viento, solo vas a poder oir el motor...
entre 8-10 nudos, te moveras 4 a 4,5 nudos
entre 10-15 nudos, unos 5 a 6 nudos
entre 15-20 nudos, unos 6 a 6,5.
Yo solo he llegado puntualmente a los 7 nudos, anque no pienso dos veces el poner un rizo cuando la escora se hace "incómoda".
Si que he de confesar que con mas de 20 nudos, eres el rey del mar, escora practicamente inamovible (4 toneladas de lastre en su quila corrida ayudan bastante) un único rizo y una gozada ver los "supositorios" sin casi nada de trapo y dando unos pantocazos de película.
Este barco nunca hará la vuelta mas rápida, pero acabará todas las carreras.
No creo que sea un barco para "nerviosos", es una Harley, no una Honda.
Y de lo mas bello y seguro sobre el agua, sin dudas.....
Hudson Force 50: (
Jim !!)
While we don't have polars for the Force 50, I can provide information on sailing characteristics.
As you said, it is a heavy cruiser and it isn't a performance boat. I've been a sailing instuctor and have sailed a lot of different boats over the years so I have a broad view of boat performance.
We've not taken our Force 50 out cruising yet so I haven't had any passage experience with it. We have sailed it primarily in San Francisco Bay and the Ocean just outside of the Golden Gate where conditions can approximate most conditions that are encountered.
Much of the performance is driven by the sailor's skill. While the boat is very heavy, I've easily sailed past smaller performance boats in light winds under full sail.
The boat will point reasonably high in all winds, although not as well as sloop-rigged performance boat. Typically it will sail with the wind at 35-40 degrees off the bow. The heavy nature of the boat actually helps it maintain momentum through choppy waves where other boats have difficulty. After a storm for example when the winds have dropped but the sea state is still choppy, it does much better than lighter boats.
Downwind, the boat performs as well as any boat I've sailed. I don't think I would try to fly a full isometric spinnaker off of it (I usually have had only my wife as crew). A spinnaker on this size boat would be quite a handful. So smaller boats flying a full isometric spinnaker would outperform it downwind.
In my opinion, the one area that the boat doesn't perform as well is upwind tacking. You will need some practice to get her to come about through the wind. Most boats are pretty forgiving in terms of when you tack it will just come through the wind. The Force 50 needs a little preparation, bearing off a bit and then a smooth tacking operation. Until you get the hang of it, you may not be able to bring it through the eye of the wind each time and have to fall off and try it again (this is especially true if you don't have the mizzen up). This is only an issue in cases of low boat speed as in light winds but I suspect that in a heavy sea state (I haven't had it in a heavy sea state yet) that the upwind tacking could be anxious. In big waves I might be inclined to bear off and jibe instead of tacking.
The boat will make hull speed (approx 9 knots) on every point of sail in winds of 10 knots or more. It will easily make 3-6 knots in light winds. The 65 foot main mast will often pick up wind that smaller boats don't even see.
Reefing is similar to other boats if fully rigged. As you get up to 12-14 knots of wind (upwind), You should begin reducing sail. With the Force 50's sail plan, you have a lot of options based on the conditions and what you want to do. Bringing the jib down and just using the staysail forward along with reefing the main is a good balanced first step. As the wind builds above that, you can reef the mizzen sail as well. With this boat deep reefed on main and mizzen with the staysail up, it will handle heavy conditions up to about 20 knots in this configuration. Above this, you can pull down the main and make good progress with staysail and mizzen.
The boat feels like a battleship in higher winds and sea state, very predictable and comfortable. Again, even in light air, it will often sail past smaller boats. It will only point up to 35-40 degrees off the wind and can be a handful to tack until you get the hang of it and figure out your best sail configuration for the conditions.
Hope this is helpful. Drop me another note if you have any other questions.
Jim
Formosa 51: (Ghost Sailors)
Greetings Jorge,
I love helping people out with these boats.
But let me tell you a little bit first. We have only sailed Ghost on the Puget Sound. The waters are pretty protected and we hardly ever see any winds above 25 knots.
This website is specifically dedicated to these boats, and I am sure you can get more info there.
http://www.force50.org/forum/cmps_index.php?
We Love our boat for its stability. It does nead a bit more wind to get her going though, but we sail her in what ever kind of wind there is.
We do not have any roller furling sails. They are all hanked on and do not have any Lazy Jacks for the main or mizzen. Usually Ang steers the boat while I set up the sails.
Every where we go we use 5 knots as a planning speed. It takes 15 knots on a beam reach to get to that speed. All speed usually gets lost during a tack. With the Staysail, it is a mess to tack. The jib doesn't just fall through. Ang or I have to go to the bowsprit and help the jib around the staysail. Here on the Sound where we have to tack alot, it can be a pain.
The boat will not point into the wind very well. Even with a smaller jib, we need alot of weather rudder when close hauled. This of course slows the boat down. About 50 degrees off the wind is as much as we can get.
Straight downwind is hard as well. Ghost loves to be between 50 and 120 degrees off the wind. In my opinion I think I would like a taller mizzen to support a little bit larger mizzen sail. That would balance the boat nicely.
I have been told that these boats sail much better on the ocean. They ride the swells well, and get in a wonderful point of sail off the wind, and will trim up very nicely.
I expect to do between 120 and 150 miles a day while on passage.
We have reefed many times. Usually when the wife starts feeling uncomfortable. I would say around 20 knots would be a good place to put in the first reef. We have never needed a second.
I wish I could help more. We are planning on getting more time on the ocean in 2012 when we leave for our sail around the world.
Maybe we can take you up on that class of wine when we get to the Med.
Don't be shy, I will help in any way I can!
Take care Jorge
scty
Scott Brosius
Skipper of ghost
---------------
Gracias a los Tres.... (thanks)
, que os pongo aquí por si a alguno le interesa..Belliure Endurance 35 (Sacado de un post):
(Siscoflyer)
Yo no he ido nunca a 8 nudos con mi endurance 35, es verdad que no se mueve demasiado con poco aire ,sin pretender sentar cátedra, os transmito mis datos aproximados.
El mio es de configuración Ketch, llevo enrollador en la trinquea y la génova. Mayor y mesana tradicional, pero con patines en la mayor.
Por debajo de 5 nudos de viento, solo vas a poder oir el motor...
entre 8-10 nudos, te moveras 4 a 4,5 nudos
entre 10-15 nudos, unos 5 a 6 nudos
entre 15-20 nudos, unos 6 a 6,5.
Yo solo he llegado puntualmente a los 7 nudos, anque no pienso dos veces el poner un rizo cuando la escora se hace "incómoda".
Si que he de confesar que con mas de 20 nudos, eres el rey del mar, escora practicamente inamovible (4 toneladas de lastre en su quila corrida ayudan bastante) un único rizo y una gozada ver los "supositorios" sin casi nada de trapo y dando unos pantocazos de película.
Este barco nunca hará la vuelta mas rápida, pero acabará todas las carreras.
No creo que sea un barco para "nerviosos", es una Harley, no una Honda.
Y de lo mas bello y seguro sobre el agua, sin dudas.....
Hudson Force 50: (
Jim !!)While we don't have polars for the Force 50, I can provide information on sailing characteristics.
As you said, it is a heavy cruiser and it isn't a performance boat. I've been a sailing instuctor and have sailed a lot of different boats over the years so I have a broad view of boat performance.
We've not taken our Force 50 out cruising yet so I haven't had any passage experience with it. We have sailed it primarily in San Francisco Bay and the Ocean just outside of the Golden Gate where conditions can approximate most conditions that are encountered.
Much of the performance is driven by the sailor's skill. While the boat is very heavy, I've easily sailed past smaller performance boats in light winds under full sail.
The boat will point reasonably high in all winds, although not as well as sloop-rigged performance boat. Typically it will sail with the wind at 35-40 degrees off the bow. The heavy nature of the boat actually helps it maintain momentum through choppy waves where other boats have difficulty. After a storm for example when the winds have dropped but the sea state is still choppy, it does much better than lighter boats.
Downwind, the boat performs as well as any boat I've sailed. I don't think I would try to fly a full isometric spinnaker off of it (I usually have had only my wife as crew). A spinnaker on this size boat would be quite a handful. So smaller boats flying a full isometric spinnaker would outperform it downwind.
In my opinion, the one area that the boat doesn't perform as well is upwind tacking. You will need some practice to get her to come about through the wind. Most boats are pretty forgiving in terms of when you tack it will just come through the wind. The Force 50 needs a little preparation, bearing off a bit and then a smooth tacking operation. Until you get the hang of it, you may not be able to bring it through the eye of the wind each time and have to fall off and try it again (this is especially true if you don't have the mizzen up). This is only an issue in cases of low boat speed as in light winds but I suspect that in a heavy sea state (I haven't had it in a heavy sea state yet) that the upwind tacking could be anxious. In big waves I might be inclined to bear off and jibe instead of tacking.
The boat will make hull speed (approx 9 knots) on every point of sail in winds of 10 knots or more. It will easily make 3-6 knots in light winds. The 65 foot main mast will often pick up wind that smaller boats don't even see.
Reefing is similar to other boats if fully rigged. As you get up to 12-14 knots of wind (upwind), You should begin reducing sail. With the Force 50's sail plan, you have a lot of options based on the conditions and what you want to do. Bringing the jib down and just using the staysail forward along with reefing the main is a good balanced first step. As the wind builds above that, you can reef the mizzen sail as well. With this boat deep reefed on main and mizzen with the staysail up, it will handle heavy conditions up to about 20 knots in this configuration. Above this, you can pull down the main and make good progress with staysail and mizzen.
The boat feels like a battleship in higher winds and sea state, very predictable and comfortable. Again, even in light air, it will often sail past smaller boats. It will only point up to 35-40 degrees off the wind and can be a handful to tack until you get the hang of it and figure out your best sail configuration for the conditions.
Hope this is helpful. Drop me another note if you have any other questions.
Jim
Formosa 51: (
Ghost Sailors)Greetings Jorge,
I love helping people out with these boats.
But let me tell you a little bit first. We have only sailed Ghost on the Puget Sound. The waters are pretty protected and we hardly ever see any winds above 25 knots.
This website is specifically dedicated to these boats, and I am sure you can get more info there.
http://www.force50.org/forum/cmps_index.php?
We Love our boat for its stability. It does nead a bit more wind to get her going though, but we sail her in what ever kind of wind there is.
We do not have any roller furling sails. They are all hanked on and do not have any Lazy Jacks for the main or mizzen. Usually Ang steers the boat while I set up the sails.
Every where we go we use 5 knots as a planning speed. It takes 15 knots on a beam reach to get to that speed. All speed usually gets lost during a tack. With the Staysail, it is a mess to tack. The jib doesn't just fall through. Ang or I have to go to the bowsprit and help the jib around the staysail. Here on the Sound where we have to tack alot, it can be a pain.
The boat will not point into the wind very well. Even with a smaller jib, we need alot of weather rudder when close hauled. This of course slows the boat down. About 50 degrees off the wind is as much as we can get.
Straight downwind is hard as well. Ghost loves to be between 50 and 120 degrees off the wind. In my opinion I think I would like a taller mizzen to support a little bit larger mizzen sail. That would balance the boat nicely.
I have been told that these boats sail much better on the ocean. They ride the swells well, and get in a wonderful point of sail off the wind, and will trim up very nicely.
I expect to do between 120 and 150 miles a day while on passage.
We have reefed many times. Usually when the wife starts feeling uncomfortable. I would say around 20 knots would be a good place to put in the first reef. We have never needed a second.
I wish I could help more. We are planning on getting more time on the ocean in 2012 when we leave for our sail around the world.
Maybe we can take you up on that class of wine when we get to the Med.
Don't be shy, I will help in any way I can!
Take care Jorge
scty
Scott Brosius
Skipper of ghost
---------------
Gracias a los Tres.... (thanks)